New Book Contains Chapter On Lennie

General Discussion
B T
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Postby B T » Wed Mar 28, 2007 8:39 pm

RADIO
Last edited by B T on Sat Mar 31, 2007 8:52 am, edited 1 time in total.

Marv Friedenn
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Postby Marv Friedenn » Thu Mar 29, 2007 7:38 am

Which I take to mean that Lennie was banned on radio. New York only or everywhere? Certainly not Symphony Sid. In Cincinnati in the early 1950's two hours a week were devoted to modern jazz. That was it.

Why was Lennie banned on radio?

I take it that record sales were impossible without being advertised on radio. Is that true? What about Metronome mag coverage which was always strong? And goddamn it, why isn't this all out in the open? Not important enough? The proportion of promotion to candor on the Tristano Marathon is also about 700 to 1! (That includes Lennie.) As Rahsaan Roland Kirk knew, sometimes it's not enough to let the music speak for itself.

B T
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Postby B T » Thu Mar 29, 2007 9:17 am

Its only hearsay ... but I'm convinced something was going on behind the scenes. Its just my opinion. Don't listen to me. I don't have a clue ...

Radio is everything (in this context). So what if there is coverage in niche-market mags like Metronome. Big Deal. What about word-of-mouth? Again, BFD. Touring? True, they weren't road rats but they did more gigs "out there" then is generally known. But who is gonna go see Joe Blow 'n' his blowin' horns if they never even heard Joe Blow ('n' his blowin' horns). Radio is the way people get to hear a sample of whatever and decide if they want to consume.

And its worse now. With mass media exploding and distributing freeze-dried portions of white-bread culture, niche marketing is dead (OK OK what about the internet?) Its spreading all over the world. PUBLIC SCHOOL was designed for this. Year after year it cranks out consumer-bots who believe whatever they're told. The school week conditions them for the 40 hour work week. They learn to like the crap thats marketed to them. What else have they got to look forward to after work but TV? They don't want the lights turned on. They don't want the truth anymore cause there's no way out. (ahem) I'll give you one word ... plastic.

Let me give you an example from personal experience. Its a humorous insight into how mass consumerism spreads to the 3rd world. (Or the 2nd world. Or the 4th world where things are really tough.) I was stationed in the old Panama Canal Zone right after high school, in the late 70s. Flush times for young American GIs (thanks to capitalism), we were able to spend a lot of time in the Republic of Panama. We were amused to see the spread of fast food chains like McDonald's and Dairy Queen to a place like Latin America. Ay, here's the rub ... you can turn it into a parable if you wish:

(Remember, I'm talking about the late 70s ... I'm sure things are happening right on schedule.) A shipment of paper cups comes into Latin America for Dairy Queen. That's right, you guessed it. Get a Coke at Dairy Queen, it comes in the DQ cup. Get a Coke at Mickey D's, it comes in a DQ cup. Get a Coke at Burger King, yes again, in a DQ cup. A few months later, a shipment of McDonald's paper cups come in ... get a Coke at DQ, and it comes in a ...

chuleta ...

Marv Friedenn
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Postby Marv Friedenn » Fri Mar 30, 2007 10:35 am

From the standpoint of someone living in Cincinnati, Ohio in the early 1950s, you way overestimate the influence of radio on the dissemination of socalled modern or progressive jazz. Except for the two-hour show I mention above, that kind of music simply was not played on the radio. Touring big bands played either at the Music Hall--Kenton with Konitz--or at the large night clubs--Woody Herman, Les Brown. Small bands played at neighborhood bars with a jazz policy like Babe Bakers--Sonny Stitt--or the Swing Bar--Roland Kirk. If you heard a musician you liked, you went to Clayton's Record Store and searched through the stacks of ten inch "long playing" records. You swapped records with your friends, heard local musicians like Don Hammerline, Marv Lieberman, Gordy Brisker, went to New York as often as you could--the Mingus workshop at the Cafe Bohemia--and reported back to your friends. And that's how word spread. As a general policy at least in the Midwest, dj's "blacklisted" all modern jazz. So it's not immediately apparent how radio could have affected Lennie's popularity very much.

I'm disappointed that we can't resolve this issue, namely, why Lennie chose not to go on the road. Perhaps a future researcher will tackle it. In the meantime, until there's more info, I'll continue to believe that Lennie preferred to be a teaching rather than performing musician with rather dire career consequences for himself, Lee Konitz and Warne Marsh.

Marv Friedenn
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Joined: Thu Jul 06, 2006 7:34 am

Postby Marv Friedenn » Fri Mar 30, 2007 10:42 am

From the standpoint of someone living in Cincinnati, Ohio in the early 1950s, you way overestimate the influence of radio on the dissemination of socalled modern or progressive jazz. Except for the two-hour show I mention above, that kind of music simply was not played on the radio. Touring big bands played either at the Music Hall--Kenton with Konitz--or at the large night clubs--Woody Herman, Les Brown. Small bands played at neighborhood bars with a jazz policy like Babe Bakers--Sonny Stitt--or the Swing Bar--Roland Kirk. If you heard a musician you liked, you went to Clayton's Record Store and searched through the stacks of ten inch "long playing" records. You swapped records with your friends, heard local musicians like Don Hammerline, Marv Lieberman, Gordy Brisker, went to New York as often as you could--the Mingus workshop at the Cafe Bohemia--and reported back to your friends. And that's how word spread. As a general policy at least in the Midwest, dj's "blacklisted" all modern jazz. So it's not immediately apparent how radio could have affected Lennie's popularity very much.

I'm disappointed that we can't resolve this issue, namely, why Lennie chose not to go on the road. Perhaps a future researcher will tackle it. In the meantime, until there's more info, I'll continue to believe that Lennie preferred to be a teaching rather than performing musician with rather dire career consequences for himself, Lee Konitz and Warne Marsh.

B T
Posts: 103
Joined: Tue Jun 27, 2006 2:49 pm

Postby B T » Fri Mar 30, 2007 1:23 pm

Marv Friedenn wrote:From the standpoint of someone living in Cincinnati, Ohio in the early 1950s, you way overestimate the influence of radio on the dissemination of socalled modern or progressive jazz. Except for the two-hour show I mention above, that kind of music simply was not played on the radio.


THATS MY POINT! RADIO SELLS IT. TWO HOUR SHOW = LIP SERVICE.
IF ITS NOT ON THE RADIO, FEW CAN EVEN KNOW IT EXISTS.

Marv Friedenn wrote:As a general policy at least in the Midwest, dj's "blacklisted" all modern jazz. So it's not immediately apparent how radio could have affected Lennie's popularity very much.


RADIO AFFECTED HIS POPULARITY BECAUSE IT DIDN'T PLAY HIS MUSIC ...
Last edited by B T on Sat Mar 31, 2007 8:53 am, edited 1 time in total.

B T
Posts: 103
Joined: Tue Jun 27, 2006 2:49 pm

Postby B T » Fri Mar 30, 2007 1:28 pm

Marv Friedenn wrote:I'm disappointed that we can't resolve this issue, namely, why Lennie chose not to go on the road. Perhaps a future researcher will tackle it. In the meantime, until there's more info, I'll continue to believe that Lennie preferred to be a teaching rather than performing musician with rather dire career consequences for himself, Lee Konitz and Warne Marsh.


He talks about choosing to stay at home in one of the interviews that KCR might have aired. Also, I was told by some close associates that he just did not like touring. I can follow up on this but it might be a while.

Didn't mean to shout about the radio thing Marv, but jeez ...

B T
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Joined: Tue Jun 27, 2006 2:49 pm

Postby B T » Fri Mar 30, 2007 1:42 pm

Marv Friedenn wrote:If you heard a musician you liked, you went to Clayton's Record Store and searched through the stacks of ten inch "long playing" records. You swapped records with your friends, heard local musicians like Don Hammerline, Marv Lieberman, Gordy Brisker, went to New York as often as you could--the Mingus workshop at the Cafe Bohemia--and reported back to your friends. And that's how word spread.


Yeah, well, this is the kind of thing that is disappearing in Nu Perfect America. Those of us with a real passion for anything off the beaten path are being swept under the carpet. From what I see most of the populace just wants to consume the stuff that is prepared for them. They accept the fact that they are gonna be wage slaves. They basically have the weekends. And that's it. They need to fit in. They need the media to tell them something is approved to consume ...

And as I pointed out above, this white-bread culture (in styro boxes) is spreading all over the world like a giant consumer-amoeba.

If you passionately care about a real artist that is not on American Idol (or whatever), you are only seen as just another stranger muttering in the street. You might as well be on the corner of Houston and Bowery, greasy fingers smearing shabby clothes ...

Marv Friedenn
Posts: 129
Joined: Thu Jul 06, 2006 7:34 am

Postby Marv Friedenn » Fri Mar 30, 2007 6:00 pm

While impugning my intelligence ("Duh . . . Radio affected his [Lennie's] popularity because it didn't play his music . . .Duh"), BT fails to recommend his own. If the radio dj's played no modern jazz musicians at the time, but some modern jazz musicians became popular while others didn't (George Shearing comes to mind), then radio is eliminated (at least during the early 1950s in the Midwest) as a cause of popularity. N'est pas? Perhaps, then, the fact that some musicians toured while others didn't accounts for the popularity. Huh?

B T
Posts: 103
Joined: Tue Jun 27, 2006 2:49 pm

Postby B T » Fri Mar 30, 2007 10:02 pm

No one said touring hurt stop Radio could have helped them all stop
I forgot about modern musicians like George Shearing stop The weather is fine here stop Will send postcard of Liberace's star on Hollywood Blvd


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