Page 3 of 11
Posted: Sun Mar 25, 2007 4:09 pm
The ego! So that's the problem! No wonder I didn't understand. Myself, I'm a functional schizophrenic. I have only a very vague notion of what an ego is and the problems it causes. I gather from what you say that it's not six dice always rolling because they'll come up snake-eyes if they ever stop.
My ego is held for me in New Marxico by someone who will help me into it like a coat.
Posted: Mon Mar 26, 2007 8:43 am
I certainly don't want to sound like an ego-basher (its so trendy).
The ego has its place. Its just that musicians play their best when the ego is completely disengaged. The music is a transcendent experience for player and listener alike.
Posted: Mon Mar 26, 2007 1:59 pm
Were egos disengaged when Lee and Warne were young men playing with Lennie? Warne, I think, would say yes. John LaPorta no because it was Lennie's ego that engaged the others. I don't know the answer although it's certainly a crucial question. Have you seen the documentary on Metallica? It raises the question--a lot different from the Tristano one--whether four millionaires can treat each other as equals instead of rivals. When Miles lost Train, he said he had lost the best ten tenor men in jazz. I think someone has to inspire us in order for us to disengage our ego on his or her behalf. It's our payment for the privilege of being around him or her. There are probably other reasons. Like sharing the same ideal on behalf of which everyone involved disengages ego and projects it onto the ideal which becomes personified. But that often degenerates into who best embodies the ideal.
Posted: Mon Mar 26, 2007 4:29 pm
Marv Friedenn wrote:Were egos disengaged when Lee and Warne were young men playing with Lennie?
Its hard for me to say, as I wasn't even born when they played the music you cited in your book. There could have been all kinds of stuff going on in the various personal and student-teacher dynamics. Big deal - that's just life. Pure musical situations would be different, but you would have to ask them!
I would bet dollars to donuts that for the two free tracks ... Intuition and Digression ... the moments of actually music making were completely ego-less.
Marv Friedenn wrote:Have you seen the documentary on Metallica? It raises the question--a lot different from the Tristano one--whether four millionaires can treat each other as equals instead of rivals.
Yes, I have! Its well worth watching, even for those who don't like that particular genre. All the questions raised by that film hit home a little harder as I love that band ... everything up to (and even including) the "Black Album".
Marv Friedenn wrote:I think someone has to inspire us in order for us to disengage our ego on his or her behalf. It's our payment for the privilege of being around him or her. There are probably other reasons. Like sharing the same ideal on behalf of which everyone involved disengages ego and projects it onto the ideal which becomes personified. But that often degenerates into who best embodies the ideal.
Yes, you are describing a vicious circle that goes with ... gurus
Sermon: Impartial Description
Posted: Mon Mar 26, 2007 4:37 pm
Hey Marv, here's my attempt at an impartial description:
Sermon On The Flats - The Egalitarian Alternative to Fortune Worship
Â© 2006 by Marv Friedenn
This book presents a new argument on an age-old debate: capitalism vs. socialism. The authorâ€™s basic premise is that universal belief in fortune (i.e., â€œluckâ€
Posted: Tue Mar 27, 2007 10:22 am
BT, your review of Sermon is compressed, clear, impartial and accurate. I'm much obliged.
The Intuition and Digression session is a recorded recital by Lennie's students which also includes their teacher. It's egoless, alright. So, if it's egoless music you want, why don't you and others devoted to Lennie transcribe what's there and continue with it? You can even add other movements to accomodate the history of music since then. You could reorchestrate a la Supersax or not.
Over a quarter of a century after his death Lennie is still spellbinding. But somebody needs to prove it. I think Carol had the right idea to add herself to one of his sessions. But that's just the beginning. Don't you think TRISTANO is a fine name for a post-bebop band?
Posted: Tue Mar 27, 2007 8:09 pm
Marv Friedenn wrote:BT, your review of Sermon is compressed, clear, impartial and accurate. I'm much obliged.
I will let it sit for a few days and see if it needs any tweaks. Then I might send it off to the ABS site â€“ maybe they will post it. Gotta have a third party review.
Marv Friedenn wrote:The Intuition and Digression session is a recorded recital by Lennie's students which also includes their teacher. It's egoless, alright. So, if it's egoless music you want, why don't you and others devoted to Lennie transcribe what's there and continue with it? You can even add other movements to accomodate the history of music since then.
Thereâ€™s no need to transcribe that stuff â€“ but anyone that wants to sure is free to do it. This kind of free playing is going on all the time in NYC, mostly in private sessions. Not only that, but all different instruments played by musicians from all different backgrounds and genres. For myself, I have dropped the â€œjâ€
Posted: Wed Mar 28, 2007 7:26 am
BT, what is the ABS site? Can you or anyone recommend where I might send a copy of Sermon for review?
I'm particularly interested in the blacklisting of both Frank Zappa and Lennie. I'd like to know who was responsible for depriving me of the enjoyment to which I have a right as an American citizen and as a human being. With regard to Lennie, who was responsible? What were the alleged reasons? How extensive was the blacklisting? Did it include, for instance, the college circuit as well as the clubs? The clubs where? In New York only or elsewhere? Did it affect Lennie's income so that he had to teach more than he wanted to? Could Lennie ever have supported himself and his family on royalties alone?
Frank Zappa was another important American dissident. What do you know about his blacklisting?
Posted: Wed Mar 28, 2007 9:31 am
ABS - Alternative Book Shop. I was refering to the site you were already on. It would help if there was a third party review instead of just your own!
I know this sounds corporate as hell, but what about Amazon? Seriously, when you first mentioned a book I thought to myself, "Oh, maybe I'll check it out when it gets on Amazon ..."
The blacklisting is hearsay ... I stated it the way I did because its obvious. I have heard some stuff through the grapevine but I can't talk about it. You wouldn't believe it.
The financial info is family business and unfortunately, the IRS's as well. Don't get me started on income tax. Its pure fascism to the nth degree.
Posted: Wed Mar 28, 2007 3:33 pm
Okay, here's what I'm getting at about the blacklisting. Chubby Jackson invites Lennie to move to New York because Chubby has lined up gigs on the college circuit. The tour falls through. A few years later when Lennie and Lee and Warne and Billie are riding the crest, winning polls, selling records etc, wouldn't you think the next step in their career would be the usual one of clinching success by GOING ON THE ROAD? As far as I can tell it never happened. And since nobody except Lennie and Lee and Warne and Billie were peaking out on (what shall I call it?) Lennie's spin on atonal tunefulness (melodic atonality) (leaving aside for the sake of argument the important contributions of the Mingus workshop that included Teo Macero, John LaPorta, Wally Cirillo, George Barrow),is it any wonder that Warne and Lee and Lennie, each now on his own, began a very poignant career drift? When, if they had toured like Bird and Diz, Miles and Train, Brubeck and Desmond--the last on the college circuit--as horrible as touring can be, they would have attained a degree of visibility sufficient to insure musical and financial sucess?
If, on the one hand, Lennie was blacklisted, then Lee and Warne and Billie would have no choice but to go it alone. If, on the other hand, the idea was that fledglings, even brilliant ones, should leave the nest--Billie of course was a lot older than Lee and Warne--then the instigator of this course of action, which may well have been Lennie but maybe not, needs to take responsibility for a bad call.